The Illiac Suite - Music and AI

This is an automated AI transcript. Please forgive the mistakes!

This is the Iliac Suite, a podcast on AI driven music. Join me as we dive into
the ever -evolving world of AI and music, where algorithms become the composers and
machines become the virtuosos. Yes, this music and text was written by a computer
and I am not real, but I am and my name is Dennis Kastrup.
Welcome to a new episode, humans. Not sure if you recognized it, but I changed the
intro a little bit. I changed the wording, the world of AI generated music to
simply the world of AI and music. The reason for that is that I realized we have
so many subjects to talk about in the field of AI that I do not want to focus
just on generated music. For example, like mastering music with the help of
artificial intelligence, which will be our topic today here in the Iliac Suite. Zen
Mixmaster is the AI cult that does the same like Master Channel or Lander,
but they're not based in Canada or Europe. No, the difference is it is based in
Africa, meaning this time my focus is on the And that is most of the time
unfortunately forgotten when it comes to artificial intelligence and innovation. It is
about time that we change that. But before you will hear Bubakajiba, the founder and
CEO of Zen Mixmaster, I want to share with you my audio experience.
Yes, audio, that AI that kicked Suno out of the focus as it generates music in
ways we have not experienced before. It sounds good, it sounds crazy and people love
it, I understand it, but Udio surely must have been trained on material that is
copyright protected. There is no other way. I'm 100 % sure.
Ed Newton Rex, who was also on my show on episode 9 with his organization Fairly
Trained, wrote a great article about how you can ask audio to generate music that
sounds nearly exactly like famous bands although you are not allowed to put in the
original name because then it would be considered as copyright of style. He prompted
for example a band called Blank 184 with an "A" and it sounds like this.
Translate is applied, blank A4 take in the stage Guitar is blazing, infectious,
energy, hearts are racing The lyrics
speak of rebellion, hope With catchy melodies and tunes that evoke The spirit of
youth, the ex -to -teen -age years Blank ♪ Now reverberates bringing in our ears ♪ ♪
Singing from the rooftop screaming from the streets ♪ ♪ Plank 184's custom melody
that can't be beat ♪ ♪ 'Cause there's a high in your sunfire ♪ ♪ You won't
continue on to Plank 184's desire ♪
Well, come on, it sounds exactly like Blink 182 if you ask me. So,
a company like Udio probably trained its AI on musicians who never gave their
permission for it. That is why I asked ChatGPT to write the lyrics for a song
about an AI called "udio" that generates music by infringing copyrights in the style
of rap and hip hop. I took that text and generated a song by "udio" in the style
of hip hop. So for me this is absolutely meta level. The song is called "Digital
Outlaw".
In the depths of the net, it's making waves Trapping beats with stolen samples and
misbehaves We -Os on a mission, no law school made Flipping tracks, making instruments
on wave It's the digital outlaw, totally with the net But when it comes to
copyrights, it doesn't care less U -D -O in the zone, flipping the script Generating
music, it's got that type of grip Infraining copyright, yeah, that is gay But beats
are banging,
(upbeat music) ♪ From old school classics to the latest jams ♪ ♪ Udio's got the
skills to sharpen grand slams ♪ ♪ It's a sample in maestro, traditional wizard ♪ ♪
Taken from the archives, the style is blizzard ♪ ♪ In the world of bikes, it's a
renegade ♪ ♪ Making music that's got the whole world swayed ♪ ♪ But both every
leap is a copyright crime ♪ ♪ Udio's living on the edge, dancing on a fine line ♪
♪ Udio in the zone, flipping the script ♪ ♪ Generating music, it's got that tight
grip ♪ ♪ And bringing copyrights here that this game ♪ ♪ But it speaks the This
beat's a bangin' set, you want some playin'
Udio's a rebel, a digital kingpin But in the world a copyrights is playing with sin
It's got the talent, the skills, the flair But the consequences of its actions, it
must be wear
So listen up, as Udio spins his tail In a The one on the copyright law spales is
a symbol of freedom A champion of sounds, but the child is a boss in the dark and
profound Udio's legacy wackle through time, a digital outlaw with a rhythm sublime So
raise your hands, let the beat drop low for Udio, the AI breaking laws and flow
Udio in the zone, flipping the script, generating music It's got that tight grip,
bringing copyrights Yeah, that's its game, it's what it beats a banging Set hearts
aflame
Sounds a lot like "Arrested Development" to me, but it was you with the song called
"Digital Outlaw". I'm sure we will still discuss a lot in the next months and years
to come how to deal with copyrights in datasets and also how to deal with
copyrights of music after an AI generated it. I will definitely keep you updated
here. Although the guest of today's show is not really into generative AI, I'm
pretty sure he's also aware of all these problems as he also works in the field of
AI. His name is Bupa Kajiba and his main focus lies on mastering music with the
help of AI. He is the founder of ZenMix Master in Senegal. On the homepage it says
about that company "Master your music in a click. Thanks to our intelligent algorithm
we analyze the style of your music to create the best sonic solutions specific to
your needs thanks to artificial intelligence and human ears. Why did it grab all my
attention? I mean I know there is Lander out there, probably the most known and
oldest mastering AI. In the last episode I also talked about Master Channel from
Norway. But Sandmix Master is different because it is based in Africa in the
Senegal. And I'm 100 % honest with you here. I do not know a lot about the AI
scene in Africa. And I think it's about time to talk about this. So let's dig into
that and hear from Bubakar how it all started for him. - I've always been interested
in playing music, producer music, helping artists, developing artists and all of that.
So that really helped me to acquire that knowledge because at some point I couldn't
maybe afford like to go to Full Sail University or even Berkeley, like to pay for
it. But I took time to learn the craft of music production through tutorials,
like online tutorials, you know. And that really helped me to really craft my work
and also being able to produced for local artists, but also international artists.
And that really also helped me. And then like having the opportunity also like to
sign some publishing deals, like with some companies based in Paris,
you know, because I mean, they were really interested in my, in my productions,
right? You know, but also, I mean, working with, I mean, different, different people
like across across the music industry, you know, like from managers, you know,
A &R, A &Rs, you know, I mean, engineers as well. So my journey was,
I mean, really inspiring, I have to say it, because I mean, everything started from
the bottom up, you know, and of course, like, I mean, in terms of background,
in terms of education, you know, I have like a master degree in American literature
and stabilization, but you know, that did not really prevent me from following my
dream as well. You know, I was also like working, but also making sure to develop
my skills like in the music field. So, Bubacca's journey is already a long one in
the music business. He has also a label with the name "Veysi Music", check it out.
It's really cool stuff you will find there. And one of his artists is called Eddie
and you will hear a song of him now.
(upbeat music)
T 'es mouillant comme un baisseur, vends comme un walleye T 'as fumé ta gine, j 'ai
appumé comme un bruit Bonne day, à venir là, c 'est walleye Mon nom est la Pompare
T 'es mon offil comme balle T 'es mon éhueil comme balle Éhueil comme balle Pompare
[Musique]
[Musique]
[Musique]
J 'ai envie d 'embailler, ça m 'a d 'envoi ma Tu m 'as l 'air check 'n 'a Fingre ma
fête et la dent Fingre ma fête et la manique Je n 'ai qu 'à m 'occu 'n d 'à la
chambre T 'es comme un star, mani T 'es comme un hobby, maname J 'ai pas paillé,
man, c 'est l 'homme On m 'a acheté, t 'as assommé Mon laïc Je m 'en ai zéré, je m
'ai té M 'en y 'a un gomme, baissez avec moi Mon laïc Tu m 'as tué, j 'ai pas m
'accoffé Tu m 'as boudé, abonné
(upbeat music)
Bubakar loves music, takes care of musicians and does music by himself. So how did
he end up in the field of AI? I've always wanted to make an impact and for like,
I mean, it's been five years, you know, that I've been exploring like the AI world,
right? From all the platforms that you might know,
I mean, from the Lander, from the Emastered, and the new ones as well. So I was
really into understanding how these companies made it happen.
How did they manage to work, like to train their AI models, you know, but also
develop like a whole business around it. And that led to doing lots of research,
you know, research, you know, contacting people like working in those companies,
you know, trying to understand more, you know, how they've managed to develop that.
But But luckily enough, also, I had the opportunity to be surrounded also with
people that were already working in the AI field locally in Senegal.
And that also helped me to really maneuver the way and understand what was actually
the dynamics that were actually
Into this context, you know, especially for for Africa
Let's Let's sum it up, Bubakar is a music lover in Africa and he wants to have an
impact on the music scene of the continent, especially in the Senegal. The next
question that arises for me was, what exactly is needed in Africa? Are there
different needs and if so, what can he offer as a solution? You know, it's really
important to apply AI in the field that you are specialized in. You know,
And that's what I did because for a long time I was facing problems or even people
were really contacting me and saying, oh, we can't afford, for example, the price to
do a proper mix with you or even to do a proper mastering. And I was like, OK,
so this is a problem. So if these people can't really
um these prices so it's really important for me like to come up with um with a
solution with an alternative because um I'm really thinking beyond I'm really thinking
about opportunities you know inclusivity making sure that everyone you know from the
rural areas would actually have access to a platform that would allow them to master
and mix um the music properly. So that led to the creation of SandMix Master.
And as you know, like SandMix Master is a platform for music producers,
I mean, engineers, bit makers, you know, I mean, that allowed them to really master
their songs instantly. - A very interesting fact I have to say, because yes,
AI enables people to realize stuff they would have never been able to realize
because it's cheaper. But there's also the side that cheaper means other musicians
are not paid anymore, in this case the producers. But especially in the case of Zen
Master Mix, that argument really becomes a huge positive argument, so paying cheaper,
because the people who don't have access to an expensive producer can now master
their music. So it opens doors. But what exactly does the service offer and how
does it work? We use AI models, like we use reinforcement learning to allow people
to have like a balance and professional sound quality. It's not just a way to
replace engineers because we don't feel like, I mean, as an engineer, I don't feel
like that, you know, we can be replaced, but this is a tool that today,
like the Bedburn producers or even the engineers, you know, can use to speed up
their workflow, you know, but also people that don't necessarily have access to
studios of mastering, you know, they can really use the platform as an alternative,
you know, to showcase their demos, you know, showcase their songs, you know, and,
and played, and also like played in their different performances,
right. So for us, as an entity, and this is actually one of the first startups
specialized in the creative industry that use AI as a tool to actually solve a
problem, you know, a problem that is recurrent in our society, because people are
facing problems in mastering their songs. It's not, if you take,
for example, an average, like more than 50 % of artists have problems in mastering
their music worldwide, right? But then, if you take the case of Senegal,
or even Africa, you have like 80, 70 to 80 percent, you know, of artists,
of content creators, you know, that don't necessarily master, you know, the mix and
the mastering world. So, that figure really triggered my mind and I was like, "Oh,
there's, you know, something that needs to be done."
Happy Music Day!
Happy Music Day to you all!
The beats you are hearing by the way are Unreleased and exclusive beats that bubakar
gave me for the podcast. Thanks bubakar The african music scene is by the way
really interesting and fascinating dig into that There's so much out there to explore
I'm giving you just one example because I made an interview with him the musician
from niger is called Mdou Mokhtar I have interviewed him three years ago for a
report about his new album afric victim Which means him Africa. A great album you
should check out and also his other stuff. A new album will come out in the
beginning of May. I saw him once live, great energy, great performance and great
music. I highly recommend him. What I found interesting about the start of his
career was that the cell phone played a big role. The people in West Africa used
back then the telephone as a mini computer and saved his songs on there. They
shared them, then with Bluetooth, and that's how he got well known. What I do want
to say with that story is the telephone plays a special role in Africa. What's
innovative about this platform is that we linked it with, you know, the local mobile
money payment because we do know that people don't have that access to,
to banking cards, for example, to pay online, right? So for us,
it was really important knowing that we have a high rate penetration rate in terms
of mobile. So, and mobile money is one of the best and fastest way for people to
send and use money. So for us, it was on the go. Like we have to add that to
our platform so that it can be way more inclusive and accessible to everyone.
And that's why today, from your phone, you can use the platform,
you can master it, and you can pay instantly and download your drive instantly
without even having to use your credit card and all of that. Of course,
We added a payment section where if you are overseas and you want to use the
platform, you can pay by card. But our main focus is the local. Let's dig a bit
deeper into the artificial intelligence of Sandmaster Mix. How does it work? I mean,
like we did not, we did not, for example, we did not really train our, I mean,
our AI, like, I mean, using like like a large dataset,
you know, because that might mislead the output in terms of quality,
right? So for us, like, I mean, it's a reinforcement learning, like, we're learning
from the track and we're applying, you know, I mean, the effects,
you know, that needs to be applied, you know, and From that, of course,
like, there's the different similarities in terms of songs,
right? From the Western, you know, to Africa, right? But we have also to understand
that, you know, I mean, songs is about frequency, right? Even if it's,
I mean, different, you know, from the different part of the world,
but when it comes back to the frequencies, you know, it's just one, right?
You know, there's different frequencies, you know, in terms of songs, right? And in
terms of instruments, right? So for us, like, whenever we actually train our model,
it was really based on, you know, how we could really use different,
different tribes, you know, but also making sure that those tribes will learn from,
from themselves, like on and on, on and on. And taking, taking like from the
heroes, from the mistakes, you know, that they will actually pinpoint, you know, and
learning from it and making sure that you know that won't be repeated after you
know so and and that technology I mean is actually something that we managed to to
do because of one of our partners you know that we're working with you know I mean
they are very savvy tech savvy and experience you know in machine learning you know
and and that really led us to and develop this properly. (upbeat music)
In North America and Europe, where I used to live, a lot of people embrace AI for
what it does and what is possible with it. But on the other side, There are also
many people who are skeptically watching it. As mentioned here many times before, it
takes away the jobs of others and also it is infringing copyrights. But how does
Bubakas see this? I mean, generally speaking, some people are really conscious about
AI, I'll say, opportunity. You know,
some are taking it as an opportunity, as an advantage, you know, that they will
need to use an approach to develop their work in a better way,
you know, because they think that, of course,
it needs to be used, like, in a way that it will be beneficial to human first,
you know, but not something that will harm them, you know, but For example, for
this particular case, we received very positive feedback.
Because lots of people were saying, we were not at ease using AI in terms of
mastering. But when we tested the platform and the mastering,
we felt like this is similar to a mastering that we did. You know, And this is
even sometime even better because it helps to see mistakes that were not even
apparent in the master for them.
And those feedback came from engineers, very experienced engineers I mean,
worked in the Ojo field, right? So first we were like,
hmm, we have something then. But we are in a phase where,
you know, people are, some people are saying, nah, you know, AI is bad,
like we won't be able to, I mean, replace human. I mean,
people should not use it, blah blah blah but then when you talk with them you
actually notice that they already use AI you know in in every DAW there's already
like AI tools that are helping but the thing is for some how they would actually
use it to match the needs in a proper way you know that's the thing and that's
where we also coming in place because we want to be able to educate and show to
people, there's different parameters or even different application that you can use to
develop your work in a faster way, but also in an efficient way.
You know, because for so long, you know, people were, I mean,
using their time to do some tasks,
right? Now, with AI, like, you can focus on something else, you know,
and AI will just speed up your workflow, right? So for us, it's just a matter of
explaining people how to use AI to their benefit, and also not to be dependent
enough you know to say AI will still out with jobs you know. So where are we now
in Africa with AI? What is the status quo? AI is really developing in a faster
way. Can you just imagine like we have an AI hub now.
We have like like a group of you know entrepreneurs you know people like working
towards creating, you know, different AI solutions, whether it's in agriculture, it's
in health, it's in music, it's in environment, you know,
I mean, in all sectors, fintech,
whatever, I mean, you can think of people are already thinking how they can use AI.
So Africa is really on the way the way to embrace AI.
But we just need to have the same opportunities and the same facilities to be able
to be among the leads, because we have our own specificities,
our own language, our own values,
and all you know, even when it comes to language, for example, I mean, people are
developing AI model, you know, on local languages,
you know, I mean, that is something really in place, for example,
in Senegal, you know, so which might be for some surprising, but we are already
there, you know, and people are really pushing out of the curve to find innovative
solutions that would tackle the specific needs of the country,
basically, of Africa, basically. Doesn't sound too bad for me concerning the use of
AI in Africa these days, but on the other side, it is a huge continent and each
country has to face its own problems and challenges with AI, just like the beginning
of the Internet. Internet is now everywhere everywhere. I can tell you if you take
the case of Senegal, for example, like you go in very remote areas,
like for example in the south in Kazamos, like you see all the kids like with, I
mean, smartphones, like for some, you know, some are watching, I mean,
football games, you know, some are on talks on Instagram and all of that. But how
can we make sure that they will be interested in AI? You know, it's through
programs, educational programs that will actually be in place for them. You know,
that will help them to understand the scope of this new technology. And of course,
if they are passionate enough to pursue a career like in tech in technology,
you know, we need to put in place strategies that will help them to learn and to
have like a better path, you know, through through that, you know, and that comes
with a whole strategy, you know, it's a whole political strategy, you know,
but us what we can do now at this stage is just to talk about our platform is
just to educate, You know, it's just to share, you know, what we know, like with
others, so that we can inspire them at some point.
Education stays the driving motor of innovation and growth. That is the same all
over the world. I'm really happy to see that Bubakar and his AI -Send AI
SanMasterMix is helping the African society in getting to know more about artificial
intelligence and its use. And by the way, we as users from all over the world can
also support SanMasterMix by using the platform. Though the main target is Africa,
we can use the service with the internet of course. Anybody from all over the
world. So check it out. Definitely SanMasterMix. Thanks Kajiba for letting us know
more about artificial intelligence and music in the Senegal and Africa. That was
really interesting and probably unknown to a lot of people, including me. If you
have comments about this episode, let me know. Feel free to contact me under mail
@DennisKastrup .com.
You will find all the details in the line of notes to this episode as well. Also,
all the links of the music and I uploaded the old shows of the Iliac Suite also
on YouTube right now so you can listen to them again and again and again with a
still photo, really, really interesting. Amazing, follow the channel. Last but not
least, I am on Instagram, the Iliac Suite underlying podcast. These are the words
you should search for. Thanks for listening, humans. Take care and behave until the
next time.
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)